|Thir13en Ghosts (2001): The Most Underrated Haunted House?

[Ambrose:] Okay picture this. You're standing in a house

[Jessica:] Oh god what kind of house?

[Ambrose:] A unique kind of house. Because every wall is glass.

[Jessica:] Like windows?

[Ambrose:] Yeah. Like the wall IS the window. And three miles of it.

[Jessica:] Three miles of glass?

[Ambrose:] Not just any glass. Etched glass. With Latin written all over it.

[Jessica:] Okay. What does the Latin say.

[Ambrose:] Oh, you don't want to know.

[Jessica:] But I do.

[Ambrose:] Okay then…It’s the spells holding the ghosts in.

[Jessica:] Wait…Holding the WHAT in?

[Ambrose:] The twelve ghosts. They're all in there with you.

[Jessica:] Yeah I'm leaving.

[Ambrose:] You can't! The doors are lock. And by the way the walls move.

[Jessica:] Wait…What?

[Ambrose:] Yeah they slide. Reconfigure. And trap you.

[Jessica:] Oh cool….Uh yeah…I Hate it.

[Ambrose:] And under your feet 

[Jessica:] Don't say something's under my feet.

[Ambrose:] A giant clockwork machine. Powered by ghosts. Called the Eye of Hell.

[Jessica:] Oh my god.

[Ambrose:] Tonight we're talking Thirteen Ghosts.

[Jessica:] The 2001 one?

[Ambrose:] The Dark Castle one. Spelled with the actual number thirteen in the middle.

[Jessica:] Like with a one and a three?

[Ambrose:] No with a T-H-I-R, one three, E-N.

[Jessica:] Why.

[Ambrose:] Because some guy named Brad in marketing thought it was sick.

[Jessica:] You mean Brad in JNCO jeans.

[Ambrose:] Yeah because Brad approves.

[Jessica:] Okay. Let’s take a moment and set this up for our listeners.

[Ambrose:] Well, it’s a Dark Castle remake. Joel Silver and Robert Zemeckis made the studio specifically to remake old William Castle gimmick movies.

[Jessica:] Okay. For the listeners who don’t know him. Who’s William Castle?

[Ambrose:] He’s the original gimmick guy. You know, buzzers in theater seats, ghost glasses, all that 1950s stuff.

[Jessica:] Oh got it.

[Ambrose:] It was directed by Steve Beck and it was his first feature. And did you know he was a visual effect guy before?

[Jessica:] Like a designer?

[Ambrose:] Exactly. So you can feel it in every shot. This is not a creepy haunted house movie.

[Jessica:] Okay. If it’s not a creepy haunted house movie. Then what is it?

[Ambrose:] It’s different from any other haunted house. Because it doesn’t have any creepy effects like fog machines, and no shadows. The best part is everything is well-lit.

[Jessica:] So what your saying it’s a well-lit horror.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. You can call it the horror of the bright room.

[Jessica:] Oohhhh.

[Ambrose:] And the best part is this. The thing standing right in front of you. Is something that you can't see.

[Jessica:] Okay… I actually like that.

[Ambrose:] And the cast is wild too. You got Tony Shalhoub 

[Jessica:] Shalhoub?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, Shalhoub. Pre-Monk. And who just-finished-Wings Shalhoub.

[Jessica:] In a horror movie?

[Ambrose:] Yup. And he’s playing the dad. Who just lost his wife in a fire.

[Jessica:] Oh, So he’s in sad dad mode.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. And he’s so good at it. You actually buy it.

[Jessica:] Okay. Who else?

[Ambrose:] Well you have F. Murray Abraham. You know the oscar guy.

[Jessica:] Is he playing the villain?

[Ambrose:] Kind of. He’s playing the dead uncle of Tony Shalhoub’s character.

[Jessica:] ohhh I love that.

[Ambrose:] And then you got Matthew Lillard.

[Jessica:] Ohhh.

[Ambrose:] I know, right.

[Jessica:] Oh tell me he’s playing a villain also…because he plays a great villain. You remember him in Scream. Right?

[Ambrose:] Yes I remember him in scream. And he’s at like, eleven the entire movie.

[Jessica:] Okay. So, what’s his deal?

[Ambrose:] He plays this psychic ghost hunter. Dennis. And he can see the ghosts.

[Jessica:] ohhh…lucky him.

[Ambrose:] But he hates it. He's miserable. He's afraid all the time.

[Jessica:] Sounds about right for Lillard.

[Ambrose:] And honestly... he's the only one operating at the right speed for this movie.

[Jessica:] What do you mean?

[Ambrose:] I mean everyone else is in a horror movie. But he’s in this full on panic attack all the time.

[Jessica:] That would drive me crazy.

[Ambrose:] And then Shannon Elizabeth as the daughter, Rah Digga as the nanny, an Alec Roberts as Bobby 

[Jessica:] Rah Digga though.

[Ambrose:] Ohh yeah. Rah Digga’s the best part of this whole movie. And I’ll fight you on it.

[Jessica:] I’m not fighting you on it.

[Ambrose:] Oh of course your not. And then we have Embeth Davidtz too. She's a wild card. And we'll come back to her.

[Jessica:] ohhh your holding cards already.

[Ambrose:] Ohhh I’m holding so many cards.

[Jessica:] That’s shady…But, okay where does it open.

[Ambrose:] So the movie opens in this junkyard at night. It’s raining. And there are cars piled up all around you.

[Jessica:] It already has spooky vibes.

[Ambrose:] That’s the best way to start a movie. So, Cyrus and Dennis are there with a team in containment suits.

[Jessica:] Containing what?

[Ambrose:] A ghost.

[Jessica:] Sorry, you said a team of guys is hunting a ghost.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. In a junkyard. With chains. And spell circles in the dirt.

[Jessica:] So just a normal Friday.

[Ambrose:] You can say that. And the ghost is called the Juggernaut.

[Jessica:] Okay. What’s a Juggernaut ghost?

[Ambrose:] It’s a seven foot tall. Mostly naked. Head locked in a metal cage.

[Jessica:]  Okay…Why is it naked?

[Ambrose:] C’mon pick your poison, Jessica.

[Jessica:] It’s a fair question.

[Ambrose:] And he kills like five guys in two minutes. We see one dude get split in half.

[Jessica:] So, the movie’s not waiting.

[Ambrose:] No. It’s not waiting. And in the chaos 

[Jessica:] Cyrus dies?

[Ambrose:] Why do you always spoil the fun?

[Jessica:] I don’t know..I just do.

[Ambrose:] Well, your right…”Cyrus dies.”

[Jessica:] Oh quote-unquote dies.

[Ambrose:] Yeah those air quotes are doing some heavy lifting.

[Jessica:] Got it.

[Ambrose:] Now, we cut to Tony Shalhoub. In his sad apartment with his sad kids, and their sad nanny. And the reason they are so sad is because Tony has just lost his wife and the kids lost their mother.

[Jessica:] It pulls at your heart-strings.

[Ambrose:] And if you think that pulled your heart strings. They also lost their house. And they are completely broke.

[Jessica:] So yeah, the movie actually does the work instead of just asking you to go along with it.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. And surprisingly tender at it.

[Jessica:] So, for a movie about glass bisection.

[Ambrose:] Foreshadowing.

[Jessica:] So how does he get to the haunted house?

[Ambrose:] Oh, that’s the easy part. A lawyer shows up. And what a real slimy guy he is. J.R. Bourne.

[Jessica:] Slimy how?

[Ambrose:] You know, his slimy suit, slimy briefcase. With all that Mustache energy without the mustache.

[Jessica:] ohhh, one of those guys.

[Ambrose:]  Yeah. And he tells Arthur... your dead estrange uncle left you a house made of glass.

[Jessica:] So what your saying. Right out of the blue this lawyer shows up and just hands them a house made of glass?…Yeah Run while you can. 

[Ambrose:] You’d think. But, they don't run. They go.

[Jessica:] So, they never run?

[Ambrose:] Nope. They never run. So, the family pulls in and the camera just slowly pans up the house

[Jessica:] And it's beautiful.

[Ambrose:] Ohhh, it’s more then beautiful. It’s clean. It’s modern. And it’s a fish tank.

[Jessica:] A fish tank?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, a fish tank. You know, the entire house is made of glass. So everything you do can be seen from the outside…like a fish tank.

[Jessica:] Ohhh. I get it now.

[Ambrose:] And what if the haunted house had this open floor plan.

[Jessica:] Stop it.

[Ambrose:] And the cinematographer... Gale Tattersall... he had to figure out how to light a set with no walls.

[Jessica:] How do you even do that.

[Ambrose:] You don't. You light it from above and below. Through the ceiling. And through the floor.

[Jessica:] Wait, like the floor is glowing?

[Ambrose:] Uh Jessica. The whole set is glowing.

[Jessica:] Ohhh, that’s so cool.

[Ambrose:] And the crew had to wear all black so they wouldn't show up in reflections.

[Jessica:] So they were stagehand ninjas.

[Ambrose:] Yup. Twelve guys hiding in plain sight behind glass walls.

[Jessica:] Now that’s real stealth mode.

[Ambrose:] And Tattersall by the way? Same guy who later shot House M.D.

[Jessica:] Wait the doctor show?

[Ambrose:] That's why House looked nicer than other TV shows.

[Jessica:] Huh. Cool tangent.

[Ambrose:] Anyway. They walk in. Lillard's already there.

[Jessica:] Hiding?

[Ambrose:] Pretending to be the power company guy.

[Jessica:] Sure.

[Ambrose:] With his clipboard. Sweating. Looking at thin air like he sees something.

[Jessica:] Because he can. Right?

[Ambrose:] Yeah…he can.

[Jessica:] And the family's like, who is this man.

[Ambrose:] And their trying to get him out, etcetera. And meanwhile

[Jessica:] And that slimy lawyer's up to something.

[Ambrose:] Ohhh your right on that one. The slimy lawyer is definitely up to something. And he saw a hidden basement room on his way in. And it had cash inside it.

[Jessica:] And the greedy lawyer goes for the briefcase.

[Ambrose:] And he grabs the case. As he’s leaving…and then 

[Jessica:] Ohhh don't tell me.

[Ambrose:] The kill.

[Jessica:] Oh god.

[Ambrose:] The kill that put this movie on a hundred top-ten lists.

[Jessica:] Now you got to walk me through it.

[Ambrose:] Ok picture this. A big sliding glass door. And he walking through. And then all of sudden the door slides shut…from the side.

[Jessica:] Oh my God…No.

[Ambrose:] And the best part. He's standing in it.

[Jessica:] Dear God no.

[Ambrose:] And it just bisects him cleanly.

[Jessica:] ohhhhh

[Ambrose:] And his top half slides down the glass 

[Jessica:] Stop 

[Ambrose:] And the bottom half stands there for a second 

[Jessica:] STOP.

[Ambrose:] Sorry.

[Jessica:] No it’s good. There’s a reason I love this movie…So tell me how did they pull that one off.

[Ambrose:] Oh it was all done with a practical body gag. They built this real prosthetic torso. And they rigged it on a real mechanism.

[Jessica:] So that's a real piece of fake meat.

[Ambrose:] Just sliding down a real piece of glass.

[Jessica:] Ugh. That’s worse.

[Ambrose:] Haven’t I always said Practical is always better than CGI.

[Jessica:] Oh, here we go with your big head again. Yeah, yeah, we get it... practical effects are always better. But this? This is just straight-up practical gore and brains everywhere.

[Ambrose:] You just hate it when I’m right. And it sure was.

[Jessica:] Okay so now what.

[Ambrose:] This is where it gets interesting. Because the doors lock. And the house slams shut…now everyone is trapped inside.

[Jessica:] All of them?

[Ambrose:] Yup. The family, nanny, and Lillard. Are all locked in.

[Jessica:] And this is where Lillard explains everything. Right?

[Ambrose:] Correct. This is where Lillard’s character starts rambling on about the twelve ghosts. All these murderous are powering a machine.

[Jessica:] And built by?

[Ambrose:] You guessed it…His uncle. Who isn't dead.

[Jessica:] You know when I first saw this movie. I always thought he wasn’t dead.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. I felt he died to soon in this movie. But the uncle needed this thirteen ghost.

[Jessica:] Okay. Why?

[Ambrose:] To finish the machine. The Ocularis Infernum.

[Jessica:] What does that even mean.

[Ambrose:] Uhh. Eye of Hell.

[Jessica:] Ohhh yeah, of course. What was I even thinking.

[Ambrose:] Who knows what you’re thinking. Anyways. You can't read the Latin in this movie and not be in trouble.

[Jessica:] Hey. That’s not nice…So what does the Eye of Hell do?

[Ambrose:]  Now, that's a good question. It lets you see the past, present, and future all at once.

[Jessica:] And Cyrus wants that because?

[Ambrose:] What does anyone with money want it for…

[Jessica:] Ohhh. To change the world.

[Ambrose:] Always.

[Jessica:] Okay so the thirteenth ghost. Where does that come from.

[Ambrose:] It comes from an act of true love.

[Jessica:] Wait…What?

[Ambrose:] And you can't just kill someone. It has to be a willing sacrifice.

[Jessica:] Ohhh. Okay, that makes sense.

[Ambrose:] And it has to be someone who dies to save someone they love.

[Jessica:] Now. That’s dark.

[Ambrose:] And the other twelve match this thing called the Black Zodiac.

[Jessica:] Okay…hold up. The what now?

[Ambrose:] It’s a Demonic version of the regular zodiac.

[Jessica:] Ohhh, of course it is.

[Ambrose:] And twelve ghost types. The Torso. The Bound Woman. The Withered Lover.

[Jessica:] Wait the Withered what?

[Ambrose:] Lover.

[Jessica:] Sorry. Okay keep going.

[Ambrose:] Thank you. Anyways. The Torn Prince. The Angry Princess. The Pilgrimess. The Great Child and Dire Mother — they count as one 

[Jessica:] Okay, hold on for a sec.

[Ambrose:] What now.

[Jessica:] How are two ghosts one ghost?

[Ambrose:] Yeah the math is weird in this movie. Can I continue please.

[Jessica:] Oh okay I was just checking. Continue please. And again Sorry.

[Ambrose:] Again thank you… Then you have the Hammer. The Jackal. The Juggernaut. And let’s not forget The Broken Heart.

[Jessica:] And the Broken Heart is the thirteenth slot?

[Ambrose:] Bingo. The act of true love.

[Jessica:] So this whole movie is Cyrus just trying to harvest one of his own family members?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, it definitely feels that way. One of them dies so the other one can live. The eye opens, and Cyrus gets exactly what he wanted.

[Jessica:] Wow. Okay then.

[Ambrose:] And here's what I respect... they don't slow down to explain any of this.

[Jessica:] Like they just throw it at you.

[Ambrose:] It was either you keep up or you don't.

[Jessica:] And I read somewhere that half the audience just hated that.

[Ambrose:] And the other half loves how completely wild and fast-moving it gets.

[Jessica:] See, I can see both sides.

[Ambrose:] Okay, let’s talk about the ghosts.

[Jessica:] Because the ghosts are the whole reason this movie still exists right?

[Ambrose:] THEY’RE  the whole reason.

[Jessica:] That’s true…Okay. So, tell me about them.

[Ambrose:] Oh, you’re gonna love this. So the Twelve creature designs were all practical, and they were created by KNB Effects Group... with Howard Berger behind them.

[Jessica:] So just to be sure. There’s no CGI. Right?

[Ambrose:] Nope. Beck told them, and I'm quoting... "I don't want a computer graphics snoozer."

[Jessica:] Ohh good for Beck.

[Ambrose:] And get this. Each ghost is a full design. With a backstory. Costume. You know, the whole deal.

[Jessica:] So, how’s that not in the actual movie.

[Ambrose:] That's the whole problem with this movie.

[Jessica:] What do you mean?

[Ambrose:] Well, none of the lore is in the actual movie. It’s all in the bonus features…but get this I’ve heard that there might be a TV series made out of those twelve ghosts.

[Jessica:] So what you’re saying is, the movie is basically just a trailer for the DVD extras. And honestly? If you’re right about that TV show idea, I’d watch the hell out of that.

[Ambrose:] 

[Jessica:] I want you to hit me with the wildest one.

[Ambrose:] Oh okay. So, hands down it has to be the Angry Princess.

[Jessica:] Now that’s already a great name.

[Ambrose:] [laughs] Yeah it is. And it’s a girl who got obsessed with surgery to fix herself. And the worst part is…she bled out.

[Jessica:] Oh god.

[Ambrose:] And she walks around naked. Covered in scars. Crying blood. And holding a knife.

[Jessica:] And how long did it take to do that makeup?

[Ambrose:] Like five hours a day. For every shoot day.

[Jessica:] Damn. Five hours.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. And Shawna Loyer who played her was in that chair before sunrise.

[Jessica:] Oh my God, that’s got to be brutal.

[Ambrose:] And then we have the Jackal.

[Jessica:] What's the Jackal.

[Ambrose:] He’s an Asylum inmate. In a straightjacket. And the best part his head is locked in a metal cage.

[Jessica:] So like…Lecter style?

[Ambrose:] Kind of. Plus a thousand. And his sound design

[Jessica:] Oh God. What about it?

[Ambrose:] Well, they ran the actor's voice through an actual mechanical voice box.

[Jessica:] Ohhhh. That’s just sick.

[Ambrose:] And the best part is, he sounded like he was choking… it was just wrong.

[Jessica:] Now that’s physically wrong.

[Ambrose:] Oh that’s exactly the phrase.

[Jessica:] So what about the Torso?

[Ambrose:] Oh it’s nothing fancy. It’s just a guy with no head, no arms, and no legs.

[Jessica:] Wait…He’s a guy?

[Ambrose:] Oh yeah. He’s a guy.

[Jessica:] So…Wait, how’d they do that?

[Ambrose:] Oh you’re gonna love this. They used a real person who was a double amputee. And his name was Daniel Wesley.

[Jessica:] Oh. So he was actually real?

[Ambrose:] He sure was. And he wore a black hood. And then in post they just erased his hood.

[Jessica:] Okay hold on a sec. You’re telling me that body is real.

[Ambrose:] That’s what I’m telling you. And the performance is real. They just took the head off after.

[Jessica:] That's so much cooler than full CGI.

[Ambrose:] Yes it is Jessica. And don’t think I didn’t hear your smart ass remark about “Oh just to be sure there was no CGI used…Right?" You can make fun all you want, but practical effects will ALWAYS win in the end. Because it always works better.

[Jessica:] Okay, okay, I get it… Now, we have to talk about The Hammer next?

[Ambrose:] Ohhh The Hammer is huge. There were all these Railroad spikes pounded into his skull. And he drags this sledgehammer.

[Jessica:] Okay. So, what’s his backstory?

[Ambrose:] Well, he was a former slave who was lynched. And it’s brutal.

[Jessica:] Yikes.

[Ambrose:] But here's the production story.

[Jessica:] Alright.

[Ambrose:] So, the actor...Herbert Duncanson... was hired as a stand-in.  Like a body double for test shots.

[Jessica:] So, he was NOT the actual ghost.

[Ambrose:] No. He wasn’t the actual ghost…Then 

[Jessica:] Then?

[Ambrose:] Yeah. The real actor didn’t show up.

[Jessica:] You know that old saying…you snooze you lose.

[Ambrose:] So Duncanson's already in the chair, and they go... congrats, you're the Hammer.

[Jessica:] Wow. A Hollywood field promotion.

[Ambrose:] So, he kept the part.

[Jessica:] That’s just insane.

[Ambrose:] And the Juggernaut. Was this six foot nine actor.

[Jessica:] Oof.

[Ambrose:] And the guy went on record about a strange production memory.

[Jessica:] Ohhh. What was it?

[Ambrose:] It was a reshoot on September eleventh.

[Jessica:] Oh.

[Ambrose:] Yeah.

[Jessica:] And a bad day to be in seven-foot-tall ghost makeup.

[Ambrose:] It was a surreal day, period.

[Jessica:] Yeah.

[Ambrose:] So, there you have it. All twelve of them on set. Together. All at various points of shooting.

[Jessica:] And then you have the family just running through all of this.

[Ambrose:] And they were all scattered throughout the house. And Bobby was locked inside a bathroom with the Juggernaut. And Kathy’s was being stalked by the Angry Princess in a mirror.

[Jessica:] Ohhh. Mirror scene's are good?

[Ambrose:] Yea, this mirror scene is actually really good.

[Jessica:] Now that’s no surprised.

[Ambrose:] And Tony Shalhoub is just running around screaming for his kids the whole movie.

[Jessica:] Ahhh bless his heart.

[Ambrose:] And let’s not forget about Lillard. Because he’s  having seizures.

[Jessica:] Oh of course he is.

[Ambrose:] And he's seeing all the ghosts at once. And he's getting overwhelmed.

[Jessica:] So, it’s a sad psychic mode, then?

[Ambrose:] And he's the most useful AND the most useless guy in the room.

[Jessica:] Now that’s tragic.

[Ambrose:] And then Embeth Davidtz walks in.

[Jessica:] Wait…Who?

[Ambrose:] Embeth Davidtz…she played Kalina.

[Jessica:] Oh, right.

[Ambrose:] And Kalina doesn’t seem freaked out at all. She knows the spells, and she just starts smashing them.

[Jessica:] So she's good.

[Ambrose:] Ohhh. She’s real good.

[Jessica:] Why are you saying it like that.

[Ambrose:] No reason.

[Jessica:] Oh you're holding cards again. Aren’t you?

[Ambrose:] Ohhh I’m not saying a word.

[Jessica:] Okay smart ass. Let me in on just one.

[Ambrose:] Later. Let me finish the third act.

[Jessica:] Fine.

[Ambrose:] So, anyways. Kalina starts breaking spells. Smashing glass. Releasing ghosts.

[Jessica:] Which is good?

[Ambrose:] Eh, it’s kind of a mixed bag. Because now the ghosts can actually attack people.

[Jessica:] Right.

[Ambrose:] And Cyrus reveals himself…. Surprise, I’m alive.

[Jessica:] See, I knew it.

[Ambrose:] And he grabs Bobby. And threatens him.

[Jessica:] Ohhh. To force Arthur to sacrifice himself.

[Ambrose:] Exactly. His plan was to make Arthur the thirteenth ghost.

[Jessica:] Wait... that's actually a smart plan.

[Ambrose:] Right?!

[Jessica:] Like the only thing in this movie that fully makes sense.

[Ambrose:] That was my exact same thought. Because it’s really the only thing. And Cyrus is also correct about Arthur.

[Jessica:] Of course he is. Because Arthur loves his kids so much that he is willing to die for his kids.

[Ambrose:] This is true. But Arthur figures it out.

[Jessica:] Okay…How?

[Ambrose:] He pulls Cyrus into the machine with him.

[Jessica:] Ohhh.

[Ambrose:] That giant set of metal rings starts spinning, spikes are flying everywhere, and Cyrus gets sliced up.

[Jessica:] Like deli meat.

[Ambrose:] Just like deli meat.

[Jessica:] Eww…gross.

[Ambrose:] And the best part is when Arthur breaks the machine from the inside. And the house just starts shattering.

[Jessica:] And glass is flying everywhere?

[Ambrose:] It looks like a glass apocalypse. And the ghosts walk free. One by one.

[Jessica:] That sounds beautiful actually.

[Ambrose:] It IS beautiful. And then.

[Jessica:] Ohhh no…What?

[Ambrose:] Jean walks past.

[Jessica:] Wait…his wife?

[Ambrose:] Yup. His wife.

[Jessica:] WAIT. Shut the fuck up.

[Ambrose:] She was one of the trapped ghosts.

[Jessica:] So, she was in the house the whole movie?

[Ambrose:] Indeed she was.

[Jessica:] Now, that’s so messed up.

[Ambrose:] See Cyrus had her this whole time and he was going to use her as leverage.

[Jessica:] Oh that's just EVIL.

[Ambrose:] And the last shot — she turns. And looks right at Arthur. And smiles.

[Jessica:] Awww. They just had to end it on a happy note.

[Ambrose:] And she’s whole, healed and then she’s gone.

[Jessica:] That's actually beautiful.

[Ambrose:] I know.

[Jessica:] Okay I take back some things I said about this movie.

[Ambrose:] Really?

[Jessica:] Yeah. Because Tony Shalhoub really earns it.

[Ambrose:] He's actually the reason it lands.

[Jessica:] Okay..Now I want you to show me your cards.

[Ambrose:] Oh boy.

[Jessica:] C’mon, lay it out.

[Ambrose:] Okay then…So the November 2000 shooting script is online. And you can read it.

[Jessica:] And it's different?

[Ambrose:] Ohhh, it’s WAY different. It’s meaner. Bloodier. And way more interesting.

[Jessica:] Oh nice. Okay anything else you want to spill?

[Ambrose:] Well, there is an extra character in the opening scene… Damon Quinteros.

[Jessica:] Who?

[Ambrose:] Oh, he’s there with Kalina. They're trying to stop Cyrus from capturing the Juggernaut.

[Jessica:] So Kalina is in the OPENING.

[Ambrose:] Yeah.

[Jessica:] And not just showing up halfway through the movie.

[Ambrose:] Yes. And Damon literally says the words "thirteenth ghost" in scene one.

[Jessica:] So the lore is upfront in the script.

[Ambrose:] You can say it was right there in your face. But the Studio said no. And cut Damon completely.

[Jessica:] So they just ripped him out of existence…oh man, now I want to see that version.

[Ambrose:] He was erased.

[Jessica:] Okay what do you have next?

[Ambrose:] You know Slimy lawyer Ben Moss?

[Jessica:] Yeah. What about him?

[Ambrose:] Well, in the script he had these ghost glasses in his pocket.

[Jessica:] WAIT. But didn’t he die in the very beginning of this movie?

[Ambrose:] He did. But, he was actually working with Cyrus. The whole time.

[Jessica:] He was on the inside?

[Ambrose:] He was the inside man. And he knew all about the basement. And he Knew exactly where the cash was all the time.

[Jessica:] So he's not just greedy.

[Ambrose:] No. He’s a co-conspirator.

[Jessica:] That feels way scarier.

[Ambrose:] So much scarier.

[Jessica:] See, the movie just made him seem like a greedy lawyer.

[Ambrose:] I guess that was the better choice.

[Jessica:] Nah. That was just plain ass lazy.

[Ambrose:] Oh do you want to hear about Kalina.

[Jessica:] Oh boy.

[Ambrose:] Well, in the script, right before Cyrus crushes her between two glass walls —

[Jessica:] He kills her in the movie too?

[Ambrose:] Yeah. In the movie too. It’s the same death. But in the script, just before, he says quote... "thanks for all your help."

[Jessica:] What?

[Ambrose:] Yeah.

[Jessica:] So she was working with him?

[Ambrose:] Or had been. The script doesn't fully commit. But that line —

[Jessica:] That line changes everything.

[Ambrose:] oh yeah, it changes the whole movie.

[Jessica:] So she might've been pretending to help the family.

[Ambrose:] Right.

[Jessica:] That's such a richer character.

[Ambrose:] It is, but we just get hero Kalina who dies tragically.

[Jessica:] That’s just boring.

[Ambrose:] So, Kalina’s death itself.

[Jessica:] How was it different.

[Ambrose:] Well, in the script... and I'm just reading the description... skull splits, blood, brains, body crushed into a near-unrecognizable smear.

[Jessica:] ewww. That’s gross.

[Ambrose:] And in the movie? It's bloody but it's clean.

[Jessica:] So, why’d they tone it down?

[Ambrose:] Beck was scared of getting an NC-17.

[Jessica:] So, what your saying is that we got an R-rated version instead of the NC-17 cut?

[Ambrose:] Exactly.

[Jessica:] That's so annoying.

[Ambrose:] And finally. The ending.

[Jessica:] Tell me it had a different ending?

[Ambrose:] Okay I won’t tell you that…but it did.

[Jessica:] How.

[Ambrose:] So, Dennis comes back as a ghost.

[Jessica:] Wait….Lillard’s character?

[Ambrose:] Yup. He comes back. And helps Arthur in the climax.

[Jessica:] So, Dennis is a ghost in a altered ending?

[Ambrose:] He's the one who makes Cyrus slip on Bobby's scooter.

[Jessica:] Oh that's perfect.

[Ambrose:] And then?

[Jessica:] Then?

[Ambrose:] The freed ghosts swarm Cyrus.

[Jessica:] Like a feeding frenzy?

[Ambrose:] Yes. Just like a feeding frenzy. And they tear him apart before he goes into the machine.

[Jessica:] Ohhh, we needed that.

[Ambrose:] We sure did.

[Jessica:] So let me get this straight. This whole movie is about ghosts being abused and trapped.

[Ambrose:] Right.

[Jessica:] And the ending where they get revenge is the only ending that works.

[Ambrose:] It’s the only ending the studio was fine with.

[Jessica:] That's so painful.

[Ambrose:] Hey, what can I say. It’s painful information.

[Jessica:] Okay one quick thing.

[Ambrose:] Okay Shoot.

[Jessica:] James Gunn?

[Ambrose:] Oh god.

[Jessica:] I keep seeing the rumor online.

[Ambrose:] That he secretly wrote the movie?

[Jessica:] Yeah.

[Ambrose:] He didn’t. 

[Jessica:] Like at all?

[Ambrose:] He came in to punch up the dialogue for about two weeks. And he said that himself in an interview back in 2001.

[Jessica:] So just some lines.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. And he said he didn't even deserve a credit.

[Jessica:] So who actually wrote it.

[Ambrose:] Richard D'Ovidio.

[Jessica:] So, Not Gunn?

[Ambrose:] Nope. Not Gunn.

[Jessica:] Internet's wrong again.

[Ambrose:] Isn’t the internet always wrong.

[Jessica:] Yeah it is…Okay let's get into what this movie is actually about.

[Ambrose:] Yes.

[Jessica:] Because it's not just glass and ghosts.

[Ambrose:] No. It's about grief.

[Jessica:] Yes…Grief?

[Ambrose:] The whole movie is about a guy who lost his wife.

[Jessica:] Exactly.

[Ambrose:] And he walks into a glass machine where his dead wife was one of the ghost.

[Jessica:] So the haunted house IS the grief.

[Ambrose:] Yes. It was the grief in some crazy way.

[Jessica:] And Cyrus...

[Ambrose:] Cyrus is using the grief as fuel.

[Jessica:] Because knows Arthur loved Jean enough to die for her.

[Ambrose:] And he exploits that.

[Jessica:] That's actually sick.

[Ambrose:] And the only way out 

[Jessica:] Stop running.

[Ambrose:] Right. Turn the grief into action.

[Jessica:] So he breaks the machine instead of feeding it.

[Ambrose:] Exactly He breaks the machine and saves his kids. But by doing that he had to let Jean go.

[Jessica:] So the act of true love isn't dying?

[Ambrose:] No. It’s staying.

[Jessica:] Staying for the kids.

[Ambrose:] Exactly. And Cyrus thinks the act of love is sacrifice.

[Jessica:] But the movie says no.

[Ambrose:] The movie says... show up and be a parent.

[Jessica:] Whoa now that’s deep.

[Ambrose:] I know. Right?

[Jessica:] Honestly, this ended up being way better than I thought it was gonna be.

[Ambrose:] That's why it has a cult following.

[Jessica:] And under all the noise 

[Ambrose:] Sad dad gets his family back.

[Jessica:] And that's the whole engine.

[Ambrose:] And the glass works as a metaphor too.

[Jessica:] How.

[Ambrose:] Because you can see through it. But you can't get out.

[Jessica:] Oh.

[Ambrose:] Right?

[Jessica:] Now. That’s grief.

[Ambrose:] Yes it is.

[Jessica:] And the ghosts 

[Ambrose:] Are all stuck in their worst day.

[Jessica:] You mean, frozen on the worst day.

[Ambrose:] Which is also grief.

[Jessica:] Okay this episode's getting away from me.

[Ambrose:] Let's lighten it up.

[Jessica:] I agree…So let me ask you this…if you were in that house…would you survive the ghost?

[Ambrose:] Hmmm. That’s a great question.

[Jessica:] Well, if it was me…I don’t think I would survive.

[Ambrose:] Really…Why?

[Jessica:] Because the first door that slams shut I’m a duplex.

[Ambrose:] a duplex?

[Jessica:] Yeah. A two story… So what about you.

[Ambrose:] I’d have to say that’s tough question to answer. 

[Jessica:] Why?

[Ambrose:] Because honestly, I could see myself being the dad. But I could also totally see myself being Dennis, just trying every possible way to get out of that house.

[Jessica:] So basically, that one choice decides whether you live or die.

[Ambrose:] What can I say…It’s complicated

[Jessica:] Of course it’s complicated…because you just made it that way.

[Ambrose:] Okay, but hear me out. I’m just saying, if I’m in that house, I’m not making the clean hero choice right away.

[Jessica:] No, you’re making the loud choice.

[Ambrose:] I’m making the survival choice.

[Jessica:] You’re making the “trip over furniture while yelling at ghosts” choice.

[Ambrose:] I would not put on the glasses.

[Jessica:] Wait…What?

[Ambrose:] If you can see them, they can see you.

[Jessica:] So you just walk around blind.

[Ambrose:] Yup. Eyes closed.

[Jessica:] So Eyes closed. In a glass house?

[Ambrose:] Yeah.

[Jessica:] You'd walk straight into a wall and the Hammer would just bonk you.

[Ambrose:] Bonk?

[Jessica:] Yeah. One good bonk.

[Ambrose:] What are we cartoons now.

[Jessica:] Whatever…You’ll just be out cold. And done.

[Ambrose:] Okay new plan. I stay near Lillard.

[Jessica:] Lillard dies.

[Ambrose:] Still.

[Jessica:] He dies trying to save them. He dies on screen.

[Ambrose:] So I'm hiding behind a corpse.

[Jessica:] You could be hiding behind a corpse, a glass wall, and Hammer would still be charging right at you.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, your right.

[Jessica:] And you'd last twenty minutes maybe.

[Ambrose:] I'd make it to act two and then get sliced.

[Jessica:] Just like Deli meat.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. You could just call me fresh deli meat.

[Jessica:] What about Maggie though.

[Ambrose:] Oh Maggie survives.

[Jessica:] Of course she does.

[Ambrose:] She tries to leave the entire movie.

[Jessica:] And she’s the smartest person on screen.

[Ambrose:] Right. Maggie’s the actual final girl.

[Jessica:] Rah Digga doing more with that part than the script gave her.

[Ambrose:] Oh, so much more.

[Jessica:] Okay..now let’s talk about who this movie is actually for.

[Ambrose:] Oh yeah.

[Jessica:] So, who’s it for.

[Ambrose:] I’d say the practical effects nerds.

[Jessica:] Oh big time.

[Ambrose:] With all twelve creature designs on set.

[Jessica:] And also for the people who just love latex.

[Ambrose:] They’d be at a buffet.

[Jessica:] Okay…What about people who hate it.

[Ambrose:] Anyone who needs their horror to breathe.

[Jessica:] Slow burn fans.

[Ambrose:] Yes…this is definitely not that. I’d say run.

[Jessica:] You know Roger Ebert hated it.

[Ambrose:] Yeah he said watching it was painful.

[Jessica:] Painful?

[Ambrose:] Yeah, the volume. Editing. Pace. You name it. He said it was physically hurt.

[Jessica:] That's a quote.

[Ambrose:] Pretty close to one.

[Jessica:] So what about Rotten Tomatoes?

[Ambrose:] Oh they said somewhere between fourteen and nineteen percent depending on the page.

[Jessica:] Yikes.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. Critics destroyed it.

[Jessica:] But it made money?

[Ambrose:] Sixty-eight and a half million worldwide.

[Jessica:] On what kind of budget.

[Ambrose:] That part's actually disputed.

[Jessica:] Disputed how?

[Ambrose:] Well, IMDB says forty-two million. The Numbers says nineteen.

[Jessica:] Wow that’s a big swing.

[Ambrose:] Tell me about it. That’s an insane difference in the numbers.

[Jessica:] Either way it made its money back.

[Ambrose:] More than back.

[Jessica:] And the cult thing happened later.

[Ambrose:] Way later. Scream Factory put out a Collector's Edition. And Dark Castle was reportedly developing some kind of expansion in 2023. And now I’m hearing their trying to make a TV series out of it.

[Jessica:] So somebody kept it alive.

[Ambrose:] The kids who saw it in middle school back in 2001.

[Jessica:] Right.

[Ambrose:] And if you saw the Angry Princess at twelve years old, you’d remember her.

[Jessica:] Yeah. Forever. It was baked into your soul for life.

[Ambrose:] And The Jackal. The Torso. And The Hammer.

[Jessica:] Oh those stick.

[Ambrose:] Honestly, the makeup is the part you remember the most.

[Jessica:] So my final read 

[Ambrose:] Yeah.

[Jessica:] Not a great movie.

[Ambrose:] Mhm.

[Jessica:] But, a great experience.

[Ambrose:] That's exactly it.

[Jessica:] Haunted house ride that someone tried to make a plot out of.

[Ambrose:] And the plot's fine. And the ride's incredible.

[Jessica:] So, I’d say watch with friends.

[Ambrose:] And don’t forget to bring the snacks.

[Jessica:] Yes. Lots of snacks.

[Ambrose:] Hell, it could be a halloween party movie.

[Jessica:] Oh yeah. A pizza box on the floor kind of movie.

[Ambrose:] And I’d say watch it in October. Right around Halloween but not actually on Halloween.

[Jessica:] And honestly

[Ambrose:] What.

[Jessica:] Twenty-five years later, there is nothing else like it.

[Ambrose:] Exactly. No movie looks like this.

[Jessica:] And no movie does what this does.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. A glass coffin full of practical ghosts.

[Jessica:] And the crazy part is it shouldn't work.

[Ambrose:] But it somehow does.

[Jessica:] it sure does.

[Ambrose:] Well, I think you know what time it is.

[Jessica:] Oh no, do we have to.

[Ambrose:] Well, twelve ghosts down. And just one coffin to go.

[Jessica:] And if I get bisected on the way down in the crypt. I’m blaming you.

[Ambrose:] Oh, you’ll be fine…Probably.

[Jessica:] Well, what are we waiting for...Lead the way Crypt Boy!

[Ambrose:] Okay I just slipped on something and I refuse to know what it was.

[Jessica:] Smart move.

[Ambrose:] And if I look down, I'm in a CSI episode. And I'm not built for that.

[Jessica:] You're not built for stairs.

[Ambrose:] That's fair. Anyway. We're down here. We're cold. And we are about to talk about a glass house full of ghosts that all want to kill you.

[Jessica:] So, just a normal Friday.

[Ambrose:] Okay. Thirteen Ghosts. 2001. The one with Tony Shalhoub running around like he didn't sign up for any of this.

[Jessica:] Which, fair, none of them did.

[Ambrose:] True. But who would? Okay let me start. Because I have been waiting all week to talk about this house.

[Jessica:] Okay.

[Ambrose:] The house is the best part of the whole movie. Hands down.

[Jessica:] Oh yeah. No question.

[Ambrose:] It's all glass. There's gears in the walls. It's a giant ghost-trapping machine that some weirdo billionaire built. And the second you see it you go... okay, this is doing something different.

[Jessica:] And the best part is. It actually moves.

[Ambrose:] Yes. It MOVES, Jessica. The walls slide. Rooms shift. The whole place is alive.

[Jessica:] Now, I’m not sure if that’s a good idea, though. And correct me if i'm wrong but isn’t there some sort of giant clock running this entire house?

[Ambrose:] A clock made of bad ideas. Yes. That's the house.

[Jessica:] And here's what I love. Most haunted house movies, the house is just…Well, a house. With a creak. And a hallway. And maybe a basement.

[Ambrose:] Right. And the house is a backdrop.

[Jessica:] But this one IS the movie. You can't separate it from the story. The house is the trap.

[Ambrose:] Which is so cool. And honestly? You don't see that a lot. Even now. Twenty plus years later.

[Jessica:] Hold on though. I'm jumping in with my favorite part.

[Ambrose:] Okay, go for it.

[Jessica:] So, my favorite part of this whole movie has to be the ghosts. Their design are so epic. 

[Ambrose:] Oh here we go.

[Jessica:] No, no, no, here me out. Each one has its own backstory. Its own look. Its own gross little gimmick. The Torso. The Jackal. The Juggernaut.

[Ambrose:] Alright. I see where your going with this. And yea, The Jackal alone…C’mon.

[Jessica:] I mean, he’s got a CAGE on his head!

[Ambrose:] Yes. He’s got a cage! But, like why? No wait… don't tell me. I love it.

[Jessica:] And they actually explain it later in the movie. Because he was a real guy. They locked him up in a mental hospital. And get this, the cage was real.

[Ambrose:] And you watch him move and he's twitching like a busted toy. And Shawn Gough did that. The actor. He commits so hard.

[Jessica:] And he's giving full body horror. No mask is doing the work for him.

[Ambrose:] And that's the thing. Every ghost has a real performance under that makeup. They didn't just throw rubber on people and call it a day.

[Jessica:] Which, to be honest. For a 2001 horror movie, was not always a given.

[Ambrose:] Truer words.

[Jessica:] Okay so what else worked for you?

[Ambrose:] Hands down, Tony Shalhoub.

[Jessica:] Oh yeah?

[Ambrose:] He plays it real. He's a dad who lost his wife. He's broken. And he inherits a glass house from a creepy uncle. And he just goes... okay, free house, sure.

[Jessica:] But, who wouldn't.

[Ambrose:] Right! And then it all goes sideways and he's not doing the cool action hero thing. No. He’s panicking. He's running. He's losing it.

[Jessica:] And the best part. He plays it like a normal guy.

[Ambrose:] True. Which makes the whole movie feel more grounded than it has any business feeling. Because the rest of this movie is just bonkers…Yeah that’s a new word.

[Jessica:] Bonkers is the word.

[Ambrose:] So okay. That's the good. But.

[Jessica:] But there’s always a but.

[Ambrose:] There sure is. So, where do you want to start with the rough stuff.

[Jessica:] Oh I'll start. Because mine is easy. It’s the editing.

[Ambrose:] Oh boy. Yeah.

[Jessica:] It’s cut way too much. Like, the movie won’t let a scene breathe for two seconds.

[Ambrose:] It's that early 2000s style where they thought speed equaled scary.

[Jessica:] Right. And it doesn't. It just makes you dizzy.

[Ambrose:] You have these ghost designs that took months to build. And you can barely see them on screen.

[Jessica:] That's the crime. That's the actual crime of this movie.

[Ambrose:] And you built the Jackal. You built the Bound Woman. You built the Torn Prince. And then you cut away every half second.

[Jessica:] Just let me LOOK at them.

[Ambrose:] Just one wide shot. One. Please. I'm begging.

[Jessica:] And here's the kicker. They put out a behind-the-scenes thing where you can see the ghosts standing still. And they're incredible. Way scarier than they are in the movie.

[Ambrose:] And that's a problem.

[Jessica:] Yes. That’s a big problem.

[Ambrose:] Okay…My negative is the script.

[Jessica:] Mhm.

[Ambrose:] Like the setup is great. The concept is great. The house is great. But the actual story going on inside it…

[Jessica:] Yeah. It’s half-baked.

[Ambrose:] Now. Half-baked is being generous. There's this whole evil uncle plan with a Latin spell book and an eye that opens in the floor.

[Jessica:] Yeah. That eye in the floor.

[Ambrose:] And it's all running on this one big idea that you only get told about like ten minutes before the end.

[Jessica:] So you spend most of the movie not even sure what's happening.

[Ambrose:] Right. You're just watching people run from cool ghosts. Which in my opinion is just fine. I'll take it. But there's no actual story momentum.

[Jessica:] And the daughter. Shannon Elizabeth. They give her almost nothing to do.

[Ambrose:] Yeah. She’s mostly just running and screaming.

[Jessica:] And she's a good actress!Fuck! Use her!

[Ambrose:] And Matthew Lillard is the only one having fun.

[Jessica:] Oh he's eating this shit up.

[Ambrose:] And he's playing the psychic guy who can see the ghosts and he's in full Lillard mode. You know. Twitchy. Loud. Sweating through every scene.

[Jessica:] And look, the back half gets a big boost just because he’s there.

[Ambrose:] Yeah…he’s the chaos engine.

[Jessica:] Okay. I think we beat it up enough. We should talk about our ratings.

[Ambrose:] Oh, yeah. It’s coffin time.

[Jessica:] You first. I want to see where you land.

[Ambrose:] Oh how nice of you to let me go first.

[Jessica:] Like I said. I want to see where you land.

[Ambrose:] Well, I had to really think about this one. Because on one hand I absolutely love the ghosts in this movie. But the big take away from this movie has to be the script. It just lacks creativity and storytelling…So with that being said I’m going to have to give it a three and a half coffins.

[Jessica:] Three and half. Okay.

[Ambrose:] The house and the ghost designs are pulling so much weight. But the editing and the script keep dragging it back down. So, three and a half feels right.

[Jessica:] That's fair. I can see that for you.

[Ambrose:] Of course you can.

[Jessica:] But for me I’m going lower. I’m landing on two and half coffins. This movie had so much potential, but yet it just dropped the ball. The story was weak. And just answer me one question why spend all that money on creating those amazing ghosts and just never really show them at their full potential. See I’d rather have a movie swing big and miss than play it safe and just bore me to death.

[Ambrose:] I know, I know. I agree with you on the part about the ghosts. To me it’s just a waste of talent and money.

[Jessica:] So, yeah, two and a half coffins feels about right for this one. And honestly, I really hope you’re right about them turning this into a TV series, because I think that’s where this story could actually work better. Give each ghost more room, dig into their backstories, and let us actually care about who they were before all the spooky stuff happened.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, I’m with you on that. Horror TV is about to get busy. We’ve got a bunch of new shows coming, Carrie is hitting this October, and honestly, I’m still holding out hope that Camp Crystal Lake finally shows up this summer.

[Jessica:] Oh I can’t wait.

[Ambrose:] But, anyways. That’s are final ratings for this movie. And I want everyone to know even though I gave it three and a half  I’d watch this again before I’d watch most modern haunted house movies.

[Jessica:] Oh, I agree. Even with all that choppy mess.

[Ambrose:] Yeah, even with that choppy mess…Okay can we get out of here already. My socks are squelching.

[Jessica:] Squelching is a horrible word.

[Ambrose:] Well, it’s an accurate word.

[Jessica:] We need to ban it.

[Ambrose:] Okay then. Add it to the list.

[Jessica:] We don't have a list.

[Ambrose:] We do now. Squelch. Banned.

[Jessica:] Oh my God. Ambrose. Get out of this crypt before I…

[Ambrose:] Consider me going, going, gone.

[Jessica:] You need to move a little faster. Crypt Boy!

[Ambrose:] Okay, sooo, we just did Thirteen Ghosts...

[Jessica:] And my eyes hurt. That movie is loud and shiny and there are so many ghosts.

[Ambrose:] So many ghosts. Thirteen, in fact.

[Jessica:] Wow. Incredible math. You should host a podcast.

[Ambrose:] Listen, I'm just saying — that house is doing more work than anyone in the cast.

[Jessica:] The house IS the cast. Tony Shalhoub is just kind of... vibing in a glass hallway.

[Ambrose:] But here's the thing, and this is why I love this movie. Because every single ghost has a backstory. Like a full, gnarly, "this is how I died" backstory. And most of it is happening in the background while you're watching the family scream. So hopefully they make that TV series to really dig into those backstories.

[Jessica:] Right, you miss like ninety percent of it the first time.

[Ambrose:] So that's the dare. Go rewatch it. But this time, ignore the family. Just watch the ghosts. Read up on who they are before you press play and then watch them do their little haunted bits in the corners.

[Jessica:] It's basically a different movie. And in my opinion a better one, maybe.

[Ambrose:] Don't say that out loud. The Juggernaut can hear you.

[Jessica:] Why did you put him in my head right before bed.

[Ambrose:] Because that’s what I do. Anyway... be afraid. Be very afraid.

[Jessica:] Bye!

[Ambrose:] Byeeee!